Category: Animal House
Hello all,
I have been reading through the various guide dog topics on this board, and I'm pretty comfortable saying that I want a guide dog at this point. I want the fluidity of travel, the companionship of a dog, the idea that it could be easier for me to find things like doors, service counters, ETC. There are a plethora of benefits I feel will outweigh the drawbacks of getting a guide dog for me.
I want to know a couple of things:
1. Has anyone been to Guide Dogs of America, Guiding Eyes, or Guide Dogs for the Blind? These are the three schools that I'm really looking into, and I'd just like some people with personal experience to tell me what they thought about the training process, the staff, or anything about their experience with that school.
I know that my experience will differ from anyone else's, and I have to choose which school would fulfill my specific needs, but talking to people with personal experience is always helpful for me in my researching process.
2. How did any guide dog users here deal with the extra attention (both positive and negative) which having a guide dog draws? What I mean is, how does it feel to have people constantly ask you about the dog, distract/pet the dog without your permission, ETC.? Would you have reconsidered getting a guide dog if you'd known what you know now about the attention you receive?
I ask that last one mostly because that's the aspect of having a guide dog which I am most afraid of. I think I could eventually grow accustomed to receiving more attention, but I don't know how I'll deal with people being stupid and rude about my dog on a daily basis.
Thanks in advance for all responses.
Good day.
Jake
I went to gDA, but that was back in 1993. The training staff was wonderful. The food was not. I've heard that they have better food now, but we used to have to eat burned tomato soup for lunch. Truly dreadful, especially since I hate tomato, but what else was I gonna do? They were all very friendly. They knew I had hearing issues, and were totally willing to work with me on it. I can't say enough positive about the trainers. The school gave me a wonderful yellow lab named sandy, who lasted me until late February of 2006. In July, she would have turned 15.
As far as the extra attention, sure, there were the rude people, but it was definitely an icebreaker, and I think over all, it did help me.
Oh, as a side note, when they found out that I had never been to the ocean, they said we were too close to it for me not to get to go see it, so they planned a special trip. I thought that was really nice, a great extra step.
I have been to two different schools. First I went to south eastern, and then I
went to GDB. I loved everything about GDB. The biggest difference between
GDB and other schools I know of, including the other two on your list I believe,
is the number of students per instructor. The seeing eye may have four or more
students for each instructor, so you don't get as much one on one time with
your instructor, and you don't get to taylor the program to your specific needs
as much. At GDB, though the program is half the length, the restriction on class
size allows you to have half of each day with only you and your instructor. They
will work with you to get exactly what you need training in. For example, I
needed training in high tourist areas with lots of distractions, so we went to
downtwon San Francisco. Other people needed more country style work, so they
went somewhere they could get that. I honestly feel that, despite the shortened
time of training, I got far more education about how to use my guide dog
properly. They also give you a lot more freedom than the other school I went to.
That's rambly, but I hope it helps. Let me know if you have any other
questions about GDB.
I don't have any personal experiences with the schools you mentioned. I got my dog from Seeing Eye in New Jersey.
As to your concerns over standing out and being a distraction, my personal experience was that it wasn't the challenge I feared it would be.I had my dog for about 4 years before he died and in that time I can probably count on one hand the number of times someone petted him without asking. Kids would sometimes point and ask their parents about why the dog was in the grocery store, but that was usually it.
I found the benefits of the dog far out numbered the hassles. He died in February 2012 and I miss him dearly. I plan on getting another, but I'll have to get over Boyd first.
Sorry for rambling a little bit. I would encourage every visually impaired person who can to use a dog. The experience changed my life for the better and I wish you much luck and success.
I'm bringing this up for new guide dog users, bearing in mind I'm not one.
What are positives and negatives about working a dog in a so-called dog-friendly city? What I mean is, here in Portland I can be in a bar and someone brings in a dog. Not a service animal, just a dog on a leash. Maybe sometimes they are what some call therapy dogs, but to an average Joe like me they look like pets, not the well-trained service dogs like yours.
I bring this up because I hear more and more cities around the U.S. are adopting this sort of dog-friendly culture where you have dogs tied up outside coffeeshops and stores, and some places let anyone bring in their dog. I'd think this could be distracting for a guide dog.
I will post my experiences later when I have more time. I am interested though, Cody, in hearing more about your experience with South Eastern as I am trying to choose between it and a 3rd trip to GDB.
Yes, I'm about to start that process as I have some awesome news that I'll share in another post.
Regarding Post #5, I tend to agree with you.I avoided local dog parks and such with my dog. My concern wasn't so much having my dog attacked by another dog;it was I didn't know anything about the health of the other dogs. I think that bothered me more than having him jumped on by another dog.
I took my dog everywhere except my gym. There was a daycare center there and it would have be
Tomen way too distracting for him.
I have own two dogs, but they came from the same school when I lived in California. That school is in San Fernando, and has changed names, so I don’t know what they are called now.
We had a small class, so got plenty of one on one time with trainers.
We had several working the class, and they had different jobs.
Distraction, teaching, class lessons on feeding and such, but during walks, the staff was mainly all out in the field.
The first time, I had to stay 4 weeks, and during that time they proved to me what the dog was capable of doing for me through varying exercises.
My first trainer gave me the best advice I believe. She told me people were going to pet, ask questions, call the dog, and any number of things.
She told me I shouldn’t be upset by this, because the dog and I were a team, and I was 50% of that team.
When the dog was distracted, if it happened, it was my job to bring him back in line, not the persons fault that caused the problem.
They’d actually do it when we cross streets to teach us how it would feel.
I’m a laid back person anyway, so when this happened, it just wasn’t an issue for me.
If I had time, I’d stop and talk with the person interested, if not, I’d say so and keep moving.
I permitted people petting my dog, especially children without a problem, because when it was time to work, my dogs, both, would get back on the job, so that never caused me a problem.
I enjoyed the experience, but training and ownership.
You are in Denver. We have a school here in Lakewood you might be interested in checking out.
It is small, and I can’t say how good it is, but it saves travel for you.
I think it be pretty neat to live in a city that was dog friendly. It saves lots of hassle, and I had my share when going in to businesses.
Honestly, if you're deciding between South Eastern and GDB, go with GDB. I
can't think of anything about South Eastern that beats GDB. Even the way they
train the dogs isn't as good. They use discipline rather than reward, and every
dog I've seen from there, including mine, was not as responsive. GDB is simply
a better school.
Interesting.
Thanks all for your responses.
@Domestic Goddess, it would be awesome to hear about your experiences with GDB as well.
@Cody, thanks, this was helpful. I brought up my pros and cons lists of the school I'm looking at, and one of the cons I wrote down was that GDB had a 2-week training program. I liked almost everything else about it.
I guess one major question I have is how the training style (I mean training with the blind person and the dog) differs during this 2-week program as opposed to a 3 or 4-week program. Is it way more intensive? Is it more individualized? I know that you felt comfortable with the length of time, but do you think that's because you had worked with a guide dog before, or do you think it could be adequate for a beginner too? Obviously this is all just speculation, but good to hear your perspective.
@Blues-fan and Wayne, I think I'll just have to adjust to being stared at and possibly approached more often. I tend to be hyper-aware of my surroundings and who's watching me, I think I'm just a very safety-conscious person to begin with, but the blindness heightens it. I'm trying to really work on this before I get a dog, because I know that the dog will definitely attract more attention than does a cane.
I like your idea, Wayne, about trusting the dog to get back on track if you correct it when it's distracted. I guess my fear comes from not being able to bring its focus back after someone yells at it or starts petting it without my permission. I think if I have a really focused dog who works well and listens to me, this should be fine.
Also, Wayne, which Lakewood school do you mean? I couldn't find any guide dog programs in Colorado at all when I was looking, only service dogs for people with other disabilities.
@Leo, I think I'm going to need to talk to whichever school I attend beforehand and let them know that Denver is a super animal-lover place. I see regular old pet dogs out on walks around the city all the time. I also live with a pretty anxious, unfriendly dog who belongs to my fiance at the moment. I'm worried about the guide dog picking up on her anxiety after a while and picking up bad behaviors from her.
I'm going to need to ask for the most even tempered dog they have, if it's possible.
Thanks everyone,
Jake
I understand the hesitation about the two week program. Let me see if I can
explain why its actually better.
At other schools, you have perhaps two dozen students in each class, and
perhaps four trainers, maybe six. That means that each trainer has to teach
four students a day. If you have an eight hour day, this means you get two
hours a day with your trainer. That's not nearly enough to get individualized
instruction.
At GDB, you have eight students at most. They don't even have rooms for
more than eight students. You have four trainers. So each trainer has two
students. So in an hour hour training day, you have four hours all to yourself.
That's how they cut the time down to two weeks. You also have reading to do
on your own. You're expected to read a couple chapters a night that teach you
how to give commands, and then they'll give you more tips and instruction.
That also saves a lot of time.
In addition to that, there isn't a time when you aren't expected to take care of
your dogs. IN other schools, when you first get your dog, you don't have to
clean up after it, they gently lead you into that. Not at GDB. You clean up after
the dog, play with the dog, all of that, from the very beginning.
The major thing is, I think, how you like to learn. if you are the type of person
who likes to learn quickly and have resonsibility for themselves, you will thrive
at GDB. if you prefer being spoonfed things, and like to ease into everything,
GDB might be hard for you. I don't think that will change if its your first dog or
your sixth. They wouldn't use that system if it didn't work for new students.
I've been to GEB three times, and they have 10-12 students per class. I think mine, last summer, had 9-10, and there are two instructors, and one class supervisor, so plenty of time to work with each tteam, individually. We had access to the leccture material the day before, and were expected to read it ahead of time as well, as SL describes GDB does, in the previous post. It's a three-week program though, and I think the extra week is helpful. We had one person change dog in the second week, so my thought is that two weeks may not be long enough to sort out issues that may arise, and not enough time to work with a new dog, if a switch is needed.
That said, if GEB ever ceased operation, I'd choose GDB next.
I'll have to ask my sister about that school in Denver. A lady often came to her store with guides and was a trainer she told me.
If you didn’t find it, it may not be in business at this time, or just small.
My second time out was two weeks as well. Even on my 4-week training, when we were given the dogs, we were responsible for it period, and they started teaching things like cleaning up after it.
I had pets before that time, so that wasn't difficult to learn.
I agree with Cody. Two weeks seems a good amount of time to learn what you need.
It is ongoing as you and your dog adjust.
On the people coming up to you, that is understandable.
As far as trusting the dog to get back on track after distractions, was something I was taught in training.
I also had a friend that allowed me to work his dog some before I went for mine.
It is more less a friendship. Must like walking with a seeing person, so you get use to your dog and how it responds to situations.
I was lucky. Both my dogs were stable temperament wise. They didn't get upset easily.
One night while crossing a drive, the person in the car decided to play, so let the car roll slowly so that it kept pushing us. In order to get past, I had to pick my dog up and jump on over to the clear place.
He took it all in stride, and we continued on our way.
So, I’m a dog convert.
I don’t have one now, because after the second, I never had time to go train again.
Now, I’m use to my cane, so just haven’t done it again.
I also don’t live in a house as I did, so don’t know if I’d like having a dog at this time.
wayne, was your school called International Guiding Eyes at one time? If so, it's GDA now. It's on Glen Oaks BLVD in Silmar CA.
My experience with GDB was very very good.
I attended training for the first time in 2000 and for the second in 2008. They have made significant changes to their program since then so I can't really comment on the new class sizes etc. I would imagine that it is better only having a few people in class and more instructor time. I will say that when I went, there were 12 people in each class and 4 instructors. We spent allot of time waiting around for our turn to walk.
I guess the main reason why I'm considering a different school is because as GDB has grown, it has become less personalized. That's good for them and good for all of us who will get dogs there but I just don't like feeling like a number and I'm afraid that's what it's turning into. When I adopted my x-husband's dog, there was a huge foul up somewhere in the paperwork and when I was trying to get iti straightened out, I kept getting different answers from different people and so did he.
Having said that though, I have had great experiences there with training. Honestly, some of that waiting around time was good for my shin splents. lol When you're getting your first dog, your shins will hurt like the devil because it's a whole new posture and gate. I'm not sure I could do 4 straight hours of halling butt with a new guide but I'd better figure that out. lol
The food at GDB is absolutely amazing. It's a bit West-ccoast for my southern ways - if I never eat koos-koos again, it'll be too soon - but even the weird stuff was tasty. Don't plan on losing any weight when you go. That's for sure.
GDB also has extremely good follow-up support, at least they did almost 10 years ago.
I will most likely end up back at GDB, especially since I'll be there for the 3rd time.
I was considering SouthEastern mainly because the Florida climate is more similar to mine here in Texas than that of Oregon or San Fran. Also, I'm not in a point in my life where I'm doing much bus or train travel. I'll mainly be walking around in my small town.
I've got a bit of time to decide so I'm planning on trying to find other SE grads to talk with as well as grads who've been to GDB since the program changes.
Yes Anthony. They've moved, but not far from where they were before.
I am not yet a guide dog user, but I will likely be attending Guide Dogs of the Desert when I get a guide dog.
I quite look forward to the attention being taken off of me and put onto the dog; I get too much attention as it is as a cane user.
The reason I chose Guide Dogs of the Desert is because they custom-train dogs for people with specialized needs besides blindness alone. They are also a small school, which means students will have more one-on-one time with their instructors. Those things are very important to me because everyone's needs are different and should be taken into consideration whenever and wherever possible.
Chelsea, yu don't get to escape the attention with a guide dog. its not like
they're going to ask the questions of your guide dog. When we say attention,
we mean that everything in your interactions revolves around your guide dog.
So you get stopped because of it, asked questions about it, told stories about
other dogs because of it, that kind of thing. You still have to deal with the
attention, its still directed at you, its just about the dog.
I struggle immensely with the extra attention I receive as a guide dog user. I am anxious in public almost all the time, incredibly sensitive to noise and touch, and I was far less so before. This is just my experience, and I feel that I am probably on the more extreme end of things.
I'm honestly not sure if I'd have got a dog had I known this beforehand. I like working my dog, but the attention is very difficult for me. It can turn a perfectly good day into an utter disaster very quickly.
Scarlett I imagine you'll be relieved when you lose your dog and the attention. I definitely was. Not that losing or giving up a dog is fun (of course it's painful), but being mostly ignored again felt like a weight off my shoulders.
Cody, I am not an idiot; I simply don't consider talking about a dog attention on me. Sure people are stopping because I have a dog, but that does not classify as having the attention on me. It is not about me, it is about my dog. I will hugely welcome such conversation, because the conversation will not be about my visible disibilities.
For the record, I only addressed you because I thought it reasonable to give you an explanation. However, I do realize you probably just don't like seeing me post anywhere, so unless you have something of substance to say to me, I won't respond to you anymore.
To the poster of this topic, if this topic is still alive by the time I receive a guide dog, I will likely share my experiences here.
I feel sorry for that poor dog.
Hello,
I went to Guide Dogs Of The Desert, I loved the training, but it turned out to not be a good experience. I have had some behavioral issues such as going up to random people, barking constantly, and lunging at other dogs. The trainers there are really nice and try to help me out, but he is perfect every time they come, so they don't know what to do. Now, he doesn't want to work at all, but if I tell the trainers that I want to retire him, they won't believe me since he is perfect every time they come. To answer your last question, if I had known about all the attention I would get from people, if I would have known that people would get my dog excsded crossing streets, I would have never gotten one. At school in training, when the trainers would distract him, I wouldn't get anxiety because he wouldn't respond because he knows that he's being tested. I have a lot of anxiety as it is, and when people distract my dog, and he gets excited it makes my anxiety go up. The worst part is how he doesn't want to go anywhere with me and the trainers don't seem to think it's as bad as it really is. I am scared to get another dog when he retires since the dogs are usually perfect whn the qainers come, so how could I get the issues fixed if the dogs recognize their trainers and are perfect every time? And, it is very hard getting my dog back in focus once someone distracts him. He walks me up to random people and seeks attention from people in stores. I feel so much less anxiety with a cane, but the trainers aren't convinced that my dog should retire.
Tell them you no longer wish to have the dog due to anxiety .
That will be better then the behavior if you really don't wish to have the dog anymore.
I'd say even if your dog worked perfectly, you'll still get the other stuff, so either way you go, it just isn't for you.
That is something you can't know until you try.
Not to take advantage of your bad situation for some shameless plugging, but
that is another plus for DB. If I called in and said that I was having trouble with
my guide dog, the chances that the trainer sent out to meet with me being his
trainer are very very very very very very slim. They have two campuses full of
trainers, plus trainers whose job it is to go around the country and meet with
students. So there is practically no chance that the trainer who raised him and
taught him to guide would come out to fix the problem. They would know how
to do it, but he wouldn't know them. so he'd behave just as he always does with
strange people. Luckily that is usually just to wag his tail until I get his
attention.
hello there please look at gdf. it is now a two week training. and two on one. and there do train dogs for other services I think. I love my dog from them. and no I will still get a dog because people are more helpful when you need some help at some times. and people talk to me with the dog. so the good things with a dog are grate for me. much better then using a white cane.
bringing this topic up to the top is ok I hope. in October I'm going to get my second guide dog. my current girl is getting tired of working. perhaps I could make her go another year, but I've never knowingly made anyone do anything so why start with sarabelle?
all that aside, my experience has solely been with gdb. it has been wonderful!!!! positive reinforcement and one on one time with the instructor are my reasons for choosing that school
on another thread someone said something to the effect that all schools put their best foot forward on the web. so it's hard to make an informed decision. back in 09/10 when I decided to get a dog, I used a simple formula. the stuff they put at the top of the webpage is what they consider importan. on one school's page the first thing I saw then was that they had tvs in every room. great for them, but if I wanted a tv in my room I'd go to super eight or days inn.
as for dog friendly cities, where I live is certainly so. I've had very little trouble. if someone wants to interact with my dog I enjoy talking to them and explaining about not doing so if I'm working her. then she sits and they both get a reward.
actually dog friendly is a pleasant change. when we lived back east, I found the total opposite to be true. maybe it was my area of the world but many people were literally petrified of sara. many times I went in to fast food establishments and heard "oh my god it's a dog!!!! let me out of here!!!!" or "don't get near it!!!! it will bite you!!!" last fall while visiting a woman practically had a seizure screaming, crying and running. over friendly people are much less stressful to me and my pup.
gdb and seeing eye are the Harvard and yale of guide dog schools. although their philosophies differ, I find the quality of dogs to be uniformly excellent. not that geb or gdf are bad, I just think the big two have earned their place in the pecking or should I say woofing order.
sorry for rambling. enjoy your day.